CURRENT_MEETING_REPORT_ Reported by John Scudder/Merit Minutes of the TCP/UDP over CLNP-Addressed Networks Working Group (TUBA) Summary o Tasks o Documents to be moved to Proposed Standard or Informational o To-do list o Presentations Tasks o David Piscitello and Brian Carpenter will present draft-ietf-tuba-sysids-01.txt to the ATM Forum. o Ross Callon will edit RFC 1237 (NSAP Allocation Guidelines) and send a note to the mailing list, before the next IETF. o Richard Colella and Bill Manning will edit TUBA DNS Internet-Draft for the next IETF. o 957x will be translated to ASCII text. (Mark Knopper to work on doing this, Lyman Chapin, Yakov Rekhter and David Piscitello to provide raw dox.) o David Piscitello is changing 9542 to ASCII, Lyman 8473, Kunzinger has done 10747. IS-IS and 957x need to be done. All will be recommended as Proposed Standards and made available both in text and as PostScript. o Peter Ford and John Curran will write a transition document and notify the mailing list before the next IETF. o Dave Katz will edit EON RFC and recommend it as a Proposed Standard. o John Scudder will try out BSD/386 EON. o Ross was requested to write a paper on address translation and publish it as an Internet-Draft. o Mark has an outstanding item to write TUBA FAQ. Documents to be Moved to Proposed Standard or Informational o CLNP for TUBA [draft-ietf-tuba-clnp-03.txt] Will be presented to the area director to be moved to Proposed Standard. o Sysids [draft-ietf-tuba-sysids-01.txt] Will be presented to the area director to be moved to Proposed Standard. This is already how OSI hosts at Merit are addressed. It was suggested to present this to the ATM Forum---David Piscitello and Brian Carpenter will pursue this off-line. o NSAP Allocation Guidelines [RFC 1237] This document is currently a Proposed Standard. Ross Callon suggests that it needs editing (and volunteers to do it, too). Ross will edit it, place it in the tuba-docs directory on merit.edu, and send a notice to the mailing list (maybe to the NOOP list too). RFC 1237 will be recommended to be moved to Draft Standard after editing is complete (before the next IETF). o FUBAR (FTP and UDP with Bigger Addresses) [draft-piscitello-ftp-bigports-01.txt, tuba-only version] TUBA and TP/IX implementations of FUBAR supposedly exist. There was quite a bit of discussion about problems with FUBAR and TUBA translating gateways. Some editing is needed on the document: five-letter commands need to be changed to four-letter, and various frivolities need to be elided. An appendix is to be written specifying use of FUBAR for TUBA. In the spirit of compromise between problems with FUBAR over translating gateways and the need for some specification for big address FTP, there was agreement to move for Experimental status now, to be reviewed at the next IETF and then moved to Proposed Standard. o DNS forward lookup (name ! NSAP lookup) There is a document for forward lookup only, no inverse lookup. RFC 1238 needs to be moved to Historical, since reverse lookup is ``broken.'' Inverse lookup has been implemented, but is very slow. There is a new Internet-Draft that does not include reverse lookup. Richard Colella and Bill Manning will edit the Internet-Draft for next time. RFC 1238 will be left in place for now. A DNS guru volunteer is needed. Richard is interested in working with this guru. This will be discussed in Wednesday's DNS meeting. o Routing and Addressing Architecture There is already such an architecture published in ISO 957x (David Piscitello or Dave Katz may know the real number). 957x will be translated to ASCII text. (Mark Knopper will work on doing this, Lyman Chapin, Yakov Rekhter and David Piscitello will provide a raw document.) David Piscitello is changing 9542 to ASCII, Lyman is changing 8473, and Kunzinger has changed 10747. IS-IS and 957x need to be done. All will be recommended as Proposed Standards and made available both in ASCII and PostScript. Relevant ISO documents are available (in PostScript) for anonymous FTP from merit.edu. o EON Will be recommended as a Proposed Standard. To-do List o DNS inverse lookup (mentioned above) o Transition plan To be discussed at the next meeting. Some anxiety was expressed that the plan needs to be finished well before the next IETF. Peter Ford and John Curran are working on a transition plan. A rough transition outline is: Dual-stacked hosts CLNP in routers CLNP over IP infrastructure IP over CLNP infrastructure This segued into a discussion of the existing infrastructure, which led to discussion of EON: the EON RFC (RFC 1070) is still in Experimental status. There was some discussion about whether changes to EON are needed and worthwhile. Dave Katz volunteered to edit it and recommend it as a Proposed Standard. John Scudder will try out EON in BSD/386. It might also be useful to have an IP in CLNP tunneling documents. o Mobile hosts: Yakov Rekhter commented that TUBA will adopt whatever the Internet community decides on for IP. o Formulate RFC 1380 responses. o Working groups we have/want liaison with: DNS, FTP, ATM, RARE, NOOP, and any working groups arising from the OSIEXTND BOF. Presentations Autoconfiguration ``a la'' DEC (Chris Gunner) NSAP structure: |-Area Address---------|-ID-------|-SEL-| <------n octets------> <-6 oct--> <-1-> o Routers are configured (by hand) with area addresses o End-systems ``know'' their IDs (e.g. MAC address) and ``know'' SEL(s) o Routers send IS hellos (ISO 9542) with NET (NSAP) o End-systems receive IS Hello and: - Extract area address - Create NSAP(s) (area address + ID + SEL(s)) - Send ES Hello(s) with NSAP(s) The migration to new area addresses is said to be pretty easy since an end-system can have both an ``old area'' and a ``new area'' NSAP. Named objects, e.g. ``node'' (system), may have protocol ``stack'' attribute information, e.g.: (in DEC DNS) +---------------+ +-------------+ | Upper Layers | ==> | SNMP | | CLNP, NSAP(s) | | UDP, Port # | +---------------+ | CLNP, NSAPs | +-------------+ When an end system's NSAP(s) change: o Update naming service entry for objects for that system o Requires name service protocol to do update o System needs to have write access to these objects This is basically a way for end-systems to update the DNS automatically when their addresses change. There was some concern of how to do this in the current DNS---Yakov commented that when standard IP DNS knows how to do this, TUBA will adopt it unchanged. Issues: o Frequency of updates o Update failure -- e.g. no write access -- requires manual DNS override ability o System state information about interaction with name service (transient failures) Multicast (Dave Katz) o Group NSAP addresses hack Parallel AFI space (10-99 ! A0-F9) (since AFI is in BCD) - Synactically distinct but parallel space - Hierarchy possible (unlike IP multicast space) o CLNP - Multicast Data (MD) PDU Distinct from DT PDU - Scope control options? (``I want this packet to go only this many administrative hops.'') o ES-IS - NSAP ! SNPA dynamic binding - Group membership announcement - Extra unicast hop -- if you want to send multicast, you unicast your packet to an IS which then forwards it appropriately. You never get a redirect to start multicasting on the LAN. o IS-IS - Could be changed to be MOSPF-like - No active work o IDRP No work yet o For more information see OSI Extensions for use in the Internet BOF ES-IS Address Administration (Dave Katz) See ES-IS second edition. PostScript file on merit.edu. ES IS -------- -------- "who am I?" ---> (to ask for an address) <--- "You are foo" (for 18 hours) <--- "You are bar" (offers some addresses, guaranteed to be reserved for ES for holding timer duration) "I am bar" (ESH) ---> (to notify IS of who ES has decided to be, incl holding time of up to 18 hours) Issues: o May not really want automatic assignment (security concerns) o IS does not know some host information (e.g., IP address)---it might be nice to provide this input to construct the NSAP (or MAC address, other host-specific info) o How can we deny service to undesired hosts? (e.g., send an end-system a bogus address to ``shut him up'' Attendees Nick Alfano alfano@mpr.ca James Allard jallard@microsoft.com Bernt Allonen bal@tip.net Josee Auber Josee_Auber@hpgnd.grenoble.hp.com Anders Baardsgaad anders@cc.uit.no John Ballard jballard@microsoft.com Rebecca Bostwick bostwick@es.net Jim Bound bound@zk3.dec.com Thomas Brunner brunner@switch.ch Ross Callon rcallon@wellfleet.com Brian Carpenter brian@dxcern.cern.ch George Chang gkc@ctt.bellcore.com Richard Colella colella@nist.gov David Conrad davidc@iij.ad.jp Tim Dixon dixon@rare.nl Kurt Dobbins dobbins@ctron.com Jeffrey Dunn dunn@neptune.nrl.navy.mil Francis Dupont francis.dupont@inria.fr Dino Farinacci dino@cisco.com Stefan Fassbender stf@easi.net Eric Fleischman ericf@act.boeing.com Osten Franberg euaokf@eua.ericsson.se Peter Furniss p.furniss@ulcc.ac.uk Eugene Geer ewg@cc.bellcore.com David Ginsburg ginsb@us-es.sel.de Chris Gunner gunner@dsmail.lkg.dec.com Patrick Hanel hanel@yoyodyne.trs.ntc.nokia.com Susan Hares skh@merit.edu Denise Heagerty denise@dxcoms.cern.ch Jack Houldsworth J.Houldsworth@ste0906.wins.icl.co.uk Chris Howard chris_howard@inmarsat.org Geoff Huston g.huston@aarnet.edu.au Phil Irey pirey@relay.nswc.navy.mil David Jacobson dnjake@vnet.ibm.com J. Jensen jensen@ic.dk Thomas Johannsen thomas@ebzaw1.et.tu-dresden.de Dale Johnson dsj@merit.edu Philip Jones p.jones@jnt.ac.uk Cyndi Jung cmj@3com.com Anders Karlsson sak@cdg.chalmers.se Daniel Karrenberg daniel@ripe.net Frank Kastenholz kasten@ftp.com Dave Katz dkatz@cisco.com Peter Kaufmann kaufmann@dfn.dbp.de Mark Knopper mak@merit.edu Ton Koelman koelman@stc.nato.int Tony Li tli@cisco.com Susan Lin suelin@vnet.ibm.com Robin Littlefield robin@wellfleet.com Bill Manning bmanning@rice.edu David Marlow dmarlow@relay.nswc.navy.mil Cynthia Martin martin@spica.disa.mil Peter Merdian merdian@rus.uni-stuttgart.de Jun Murai jun@wide.ad.jp Peder Chr. Noergaard pcn@tbit.dk Masataka Ohta mohta@cc.titech.ac.jp Andrew Partan asp@uunet.uu.net David Piscitello dave@mail.bellcore.com Willi Porten porten@gmd.de Aiko Pras pras@cs.utwente.nl Juergen Rauschenbach jrau@dfn.de Alex Reijnierse a.a.reijnierse@research.ptt.nl Victor Reijs reijs@surfnet.nl Yakov Rekhter yakov@watson.ibm.com Robert Reschly reschly@brl.mil Georg Richter richter@uni-muenster.de Luc Rooijakkers lwj@cs.kun.nl Henry Sanders henrysa@microsoft.com John Scudder jgs@merit.edu Keith Sklower sklower@cs.berkeley.edu Michael St. Johns stjohns@darpa.mil Henk Steenman henk@sara.nl Vladimir Sukonnik sukonnik@process.com Fumio Teraoka tera@csl.sony.co.jp Kamlesh Tewani ktt@arch2.att.com Richard Thomas rjthomas@bnr.ca Paul Traina pst@cisco.com Antoine Trannoy trannoy@crs4.it Willem van der Scheun scheun@sara.nl Marcel Wiget wiget@switch.ch Kirk Williams kirk@sbctri.sbc.com Sam Wilson sam.wilson@ed.ac.uk Noriko Yokokawa norinori@wide.ad.jp Jessica Yu jyy@merit.edu James Zmuda zmuda@mls.hac.com Romeo Zwart romeo@sara.nl